有人从手持AR15身穿防弹衣的枪手身上抢了一把手枪…

刚看到的新闻,这太厉害了…

  • Early reports indicate that the suspect entered the establishment, Club Q, wearing body armor, and began firing with an AR-15 style rifle, according to two law enforcement officials briefed on the shooting. One of the club’s owners, who reviewed surveillance video of the scene, said the gunman entered the nightclub with “tremendous firepower.”
  • Mayor John Suthers of Colorado Springs said that someone had acted quickly to grab a handgun from the gunman, then hit him with it, subduing him. When police burst in, the man was still on top of the gunman, pinning him down, Mr. Suthers told The New York Times.

那么问题来了,为什么要去枪手身上去夺枪,自己carry不是更香么。

John Wick的做法。 :joy:

还是那句话,室内有限空间,尤其是人多的地方,长枪并不好用。

这是真男人,亲手救下了自己的妻女和一大帮人。

COLORADO SPRINGS — Richard M. Fierro was at a table in Club Q with his wife, daughter and friends on Saturday, watching a drag show, when the sudden flash of gunfire ripped across the nightclub and instincts forged during four combat deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan instantly kicked in. Fight back, he told himself, protect your people.

In an interview at his house on Monday, where his wife and daughter were still recovering from injuries, Mr. Fierro, 45, who spent 15 years as an Army officer and left as a major in 2013, according to military records, described charging through the chaos at the club, tackling the gunman and beating him bloody with the gunman’s own gun.

“I don’t know exactly what I did, I just went into combat mode,” Mr. Fierro said, shaking his head as he stood in his driveway, an American flag hanging limp in the freezing air. “I just know I have to kill this guy before he kills us.”

But that night at Club Q, he was not thinking of war at all. The women were dancing. He was joking with his friends. Then the shooting started.

It was a staccato of flashes by the front door, the familiar sound of small-arms fire. Mr. Fierro knew it too well. Without thinking, he hit the floor, pulling his friend down him. Bullets sprayed across the bar, smashing bottles and glasses. People screamed. Mr. Fierro looked up and saw a figure as big as a bear, easily more than 300 pounds, wearing body armor and carrying a rifle a lot like the one he had carried in Iraq. The shooter was moving through the bar toward a door leading to a patio where dozens of people had fled.

The long-suppressed instincts of a platoon leader shot back to life. He raced across the room, grabbed the gunman by a handle on the back of his body armor, pulled him to the floor and jumped on top of him.

“Was he shooting at the time? Was he about to shoot? I don’t know,” Mr. Fierro said. “I just knew I had to take him down.

The two crashed to the floor. The gunman’s military-style rifle clattered just out of reach. Mr. Fierro started to go for it, but then saw that the gunman come up with a pistol in his other hand.

“I grabbed the gun out of his hand and just started hitting him in the head, over and over,” Mr. Fierro said.

As he held the man down and slammed the pistol down on his skull, Mr. Fierro started barking orders. He yelled for another club patron, using a string of expletives, to grab the rifle then told the patron to start kicking the gunman in the face. A drag dancer was passing by, and Mr. Fierro said he ordered her to stomp the attacker with her high heels. The whole time, Mr. Fierro said, he kept pummeling the shooter with the pistol while screaming obscenities.

What allowed him to throw aside all fear and act? He said he has no idea. Probably those old instincts of war, that had burdened him for so long at home, suddenly had a place now that something like war had come to his hometown

“In combat, most of the time nothing happens, but it’s that mad minute, that mad minute, and you are tested in that minute. It becomes habit,” he said. “I don’t know how I got the weapon away from that guy, no idea. I’m just a dude, I’m a fat old vet, and but I knew I had to do something.”

When police arrived a few minutes later, the gunman was no longer struggling, Mr. Fierro said. Mr. Fierro said he feared that he had killed him.

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嗯,记住哈,以后别去这样的地方。抽烟喝酒烫头可以有。

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最后的部分…

Eventually, he was freed. He went to the hospital with his wife and daughter, who had only minor injuries. His friends were there, and are still there, in much more serious condition. They were all alive. But his daughter’s boyfriend was nowhere to be found. In the chaos they had lost him. They drove back to the club, searching for him, they circled familiar streets, hoping they would find him walking home. But there was nothing.

The family got a call late Sunday from his mother. He had died in the shooting.

When Mr. Fierro heard, he said, he held his daughter and cried.

In part he cried because he knew what lay ahead. The families of the dead, the people who were shot, had now been in war, like he had. They would struggle like he and so many of his combat buddies had. They would ache with misplaced vigilance, they would lash out in anger, never be able to scratch the itch of fear, be torn by the longing to forget and the urge to always remember.

“My little girl, she screamed and I was crying with her,” he said. “Driving home from the hospital I told them, ‘Look, I’ve gone through this before, and down range, when this happens, you just get out on the next patrol. You need to get it out of your mind.’ That is how you cured it. You cured it by doing more. Eventually you get home safe. But here I worry there is no next patrol. It is harder to cure. You are already home.”

什么叫酸?去这种 target rich area,自己又不带枪,那只能靠幸运女神照顾了。
反枪派在他身上找到了理想的英雄形象,退伍军人、不带枪、赤手空拳制服枪手,隐含的意思就是,你们也不用带枪。对幸存者偏差就完全视而不见了。

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展开讲几句。我对“英雄情结”比较反感,因为和平时期的平民一般只有在错误时间、错误地点和错误人物的场合下才有机会当英雄,这就违反了自卫中最重要的“避险”原则。一个理智、谨慎、警惕、有备的人,虽然是对付这种突发事件的最好人选,但他往往会避免、也应该避免他认为不安全的场合,这就大大减小了他遇到此类事件的概率,而此类事件发生的概率本来就非常非常小,基本是统计上的异常值。不管是这位退役陆军少校,还是 Eli Dicken,都是极少数人里的极少数,不能拿来当评价判断我们自己行为准则的标准,最多只能拿来给我们自己的自卫预案当参考。即使考虑到部分幸运的因素,绝大多数理智、谨慎、警惕、有备的人,一辈子都碰不到此类事件,他们才是自卫成功者。这是自卫原则中众多“似非而是”(paradoxical)的概念之一,“什么也没发生”才是自卫成功的真正标准。这个标准也是反直觉的,因为看不见摸不着,也不能被证明,因为要证明一个否定命题逻辑上不可能。

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所谓不立危墙。我其实想说说抽烟喝酒可以有,连烫头都别去了,最近年景不好,连理发店按摩店都经常有人惦记着抢。烫头我是撞了撞胆才加上的。因为于大爷好这一口,听来押韵。

抽烟喝酒烫头是于大爷三大爱好好不好,拜托你别恶意揣测别人动机。难不成你让我看了你转的这个新闻跟帖说,诸位枪油,以后去看脱衣舞都记得带上10妹妹啊。绝大部分枪友家庭没这个爱好吧???

那您的意思是只有打过仗的才有资格谈自卫咯?如果是这样,那您对什么是和平时期平民自卫的基本概念不理解,更不知道它和军人打仗有什么根本性的区别,虽然两者表面上都可能带枪。
其实回答这个问题,警察比军人有资格得多。您理解警察和军人的根本区别吗?

真汉子也会犯心态、战术、技术、器械各方面的错误,这些错误不能以一句“真汉子”来掩盖了,更不能因为仰慕真汉子而盲目参照他犯的各种错误,毕竟我们平时不断检视改进自己的自卫预案、练习技术的目的就是为了尽量减少幸运的因素,我们也绝对不想遇到突发事件还指望从枪手身上夺枪。
至于他因为心理疾病而清除家里所有的枪,我们除了同情,不会有太多想法,更不会借鉴。

你如果从这个案例里学到了你眼中的真汉子,空手夺枪,我敬仰你是条好汉。

这个故事告诉我们,买PC不要买带救生把手的hhh

结束入伍bootcamp,在去部队报到前休假,几个老友聚聚。听到一声巨响,大家很自然的卧倒。这是训练的效果。

四年前遇到一位82空降师退伍的新创人,他仍有PTSD,最后决定quit 新创寻求平静一些的生活。

在gun club里很多退伍军警。大家对突发事件能有的反应也与过去的训练和经验很有关系。

所以这位退伍中校的反应很自然也很无奈。狭路相逢勇者胜。相信当时他可能没时间想我有没有带枪,而是解决眼前问题。

去那里R&R是个人选择。他还和老婆女儿去。自己不动手,谁来救他的家人?

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这个评价很客观,中肯

两回事,可以理智鸡贼的避开所有危险机会当然是上上之选,但世道无常,人有旦夕祸福,遇到匪夷所思万万没想到,正常人不能排除生命中这种预案。

人与人当然不同,hero就是hero,这不需要情节,很客观很冷血, 每个人遇到事情的选择都不一定会一样,但不说明没有区别,没有高下,没有价值判断。

最好的情况当然是每个人的梦想,但是人一思考上帝就笑说的就是这个。

很中肯,属于正常人的反应。但仍然是个很不幸的事件,问题不是这个中校的行为,这个事件被新闻还是有引发人们思考的作用。悲剧的是结果中校成了聚焦点 :rofl:

写的很好啊。从这个案例里,我也学到了很多。对于这样的军人,我个人是很敬佩的。